Podcast Image“Early on, in Milwaukee, I got into trouble as a young man with a lot of other friends. We weren’t a gang as such, but we had a lot of trouble that we got into, to the point where it took me before the judge when I was 16 years old, 17 years old. And the judge gave me an ultimatum of either joining the military (this was back in 1962) or going into the reformatory for the trouble that I got into.”

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